Forums: Rules Questions: Brew Potion feat for non-spellcasters? (2025)

The way the Brew Potion feat is worded, it sounds like the brewer of the potion must be able to cast the spell that is to be put into the potion. I'd like to get some thoughts on the feasibility of making the potion brewing process one that could be shared between multiple party members.

One of my players has a rogue character that wants to take the Brew Potion feat, but the only spells he can actually cast are those he chose with his major and minor magic rogue talents. But he would like to be able to take the Brew Potion feat and have one of the party's actual spellcasters (a druid, an oracle, and a sorceror) cast the spells into the potions he creates.

I'm debating whether or not to create a house rule to allow this, so I thought I'd put this up for feedback.

On a related note: should a synergy bonus be allowed if he has both Brew Potion and Craft (Alchemy)?

Firstly, the Rogue talents are Spell-Like Abilities, he/she doesn't actually cast them.

He could max out Spellcraft and take the Brew Potion feat. The DC would be +5 for not casting the spell needed (2 spells = +10), or get the party Wizard or Cleric to cast the necessary spell. He'd also have -5 for not fulfilling the caster level prerequisite.

Alternatively, max out Craft (Bartender? - okay, Alchemy ;p) and take the MasterCraftsmen feat.

No synergy bonuses in PF, apparently.

Tanis wrote:

Firstly, the Rogue talents are Spell-Like Abilities, he/she doesn't actually cast them.

He could max out Spellcraft and take the Brew Potion feat. The DC would be +5 for not casting the spell needed (2 spells = +10), or get the party Wizard or Cleric to cast the necessary spell. He'd also have -5 for not fulfilling the caster level prerequisite.

Alternatively, max out Craft (Bartender? - okay, Alchemy ;p) and take the MasterCraftsmen feat.

No synergy bonuses in PF, apparently.

RAW, you need caster level 3 to get the Brew Potion feat. That said, I'd probably let a PC use Master Craftsman or a homebrew feat that's similar to make potions, using those rules. The skill might be Craft (alchemy) or Profession (herbalist) or even Heal (for curative potions only).

And no, synergy bonuses have followed the dodo and the passenger pigeon into history.

I agree that per RAW only a spell caster of 3rd level or higher can take Brew Potion. But I am a firm believer that Master Craftsman could be taken for this feat in a way similar to arms/armor and wonderous items. The skills you could base it off of are Alchemy, Herbalist, Cook, Brewer, and my favorite... Baker. Muffin of CLW or Cup Cake of Fly anyone? LOL

And as all of the Master Craftsman stuff goes your skill ranks are your new caster level for making an item, the craft skill replaces spellcraft for the skill check. And finally you usually have to take the +5 penalty for not having the right spell. (Unless you have party member help I guess.)

On this same subject, would you allow Master Craftsman (profession: scribe) + Scribe Scroll to make spell Scrolls with the +5 DC for not knowing the spell?

Combine this with the Master Craftsman (Profession: brewer) + Brew Potions and you as the DM will never again have to give out spell scrolls or pots as treasure.

Basically, why would any potion user or PC with use magic device ever not take that combo?

Because by the rules, you cannot create any scrolls, wands, or staves without actually having the spell available.

PFRPG wrote:

In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

Edited to remove "potions" from that list, that's a house rule.

Happler wrote:

On this same subject, would you allow Master Craftsman (profession: scribe) + Scribe Scroll to make spell Scrolls with the +5 DC for not knowing the spell?

Combine this with the Master Craftsman (Profession: brewer) + Brew Potions and you as the DM will never again have to give out spell scrolls or pots as treasure.

Basically, why would any potion user or PC with use magic device ever not take that combo?

Well for starters you are burning two feats for each one. One for the master craftsman and one for the item creation feat itself. Plus the skill points. And with the scroll you also have to spend skill points on UMD. So one character would have to spend four feats and max or close to max three skills. This is harder for the non-caster but possible, and allows for some good RP options. The dwarf fighter that makes his own armor and weapons is iconic. And a dwarf that brews magic potions/beer is not far behind in the character concept.

Just because someone in the party can make a magic item, that does not mean the DM never gives out magic ever again.

okay a how about having biscuit of invisibility and a jam of silence for the cost of 1 level 2 potion.

Sure, you spent 2 feats (Master Craftsman (cook) and brew potion) but now you can (as full level rogue, no other class needed), create all the food of sneak attack that you want. Also, since what is good for the players is good for the DM. Enjoy your banquet of Contagion. Beer of Bestow Curse, and meat of blindness.

I can see this as being too powerful myself. After all, once the rogue has this. a steak of sleep will take care of guard dogs, etc...

I think that since potions can be made of any 1st through 3rd level spell that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures, they need to be restricted to the casters who can cast those spells.

If you want to allow this, I would create "wondrous item" potions that have specific abilities.

But then again, I have dealt with some very creative characters on using stuff in new and unusual ways..

First off, I want to clarify that I am not saying preventing the player from being able to do what you described is wrong. I just do not see how it is game breaking or unfair to the casters of the group.

This is from the PRD -

In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

And this too -

Single use, use-activated Spell level x caster level x 50 gp Potion of cure light wounds.

So a wizard with Brew Potion can make any potion they want... not just spells they have in their spell book. This is due to the fact that potions are use activated and not spell trigger or spell completion.

So what you described the rogue doing is 100% allowed by any spellcaster that takes the brew potion feat in potion form. For the most part many of the things you described could also be done with poisons.

It sounds like you have one of two issues with the house rule I suggested.

A. You do not like characters to have cheaper access to magic items by spending feats and skills to be able to do so. This can be valid in a campaign and if that is the case then setting expectations for the group should take care of it. You could also limit down time to prevent excessive crafting.

Or

B. You do not like the alternate form of ingestion of the "potion". That is fine. Just make sure they understand the "liquid" component is required and you can still only eat one at a time due to then need to absorb the magic quickly and without cross contamination. Just like you cannot pour two potions into one vial and drink them at the same time.

Brew Potion requires Caster level 3rd. Your rogue doesn't have an actual caster level. He might have an effective caster level for determining his SLA's.

Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures."

Thus, you must actually know the spell to brew the potion.

Master Craftsman allows you to:
Use your ranks in the chosen skill to count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level.

The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements.

You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation items.

What you cannot do:

You cannot use master craftsman to make magic items other than wondrous items and magic arms and armor.
You cannot craft a wondrous item or magical armor or shield that has a spell completion or spell trigger ability in it.
You cannot use master craftsman to brew potions.
There's more, but you get the point.

If you allow the player to use his talents to qualify for the brew potions feat:

pg 549 of the core rulebook
"*about prerequisites*Most of the time, they take the form of spells that muct be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.

The rogue would need to make a skill check of either Spellcraft or Craft(Alchemy) for each potion.

The DC for each potion is 5 + the items caster level. In the case of potions,
0th 5+1=6
1st 5+1=6
2nd 5+3=8
3nd 5+5=10

If he wanted to skip having the sorcerer provide spells, he could do so by raising the DC of it by 5. Note you can't do this for spell completion or spell trigger items.

So, sans an actual caster,
0th 5+5+1=11
1st 5+5+1=11
2nd 5+5+3=13
3rd 5+5+5=15

Each potion requires 1 full day to brew. The rogue can't brew, for instance, 5 potions at the same time. The exception is if the potion is priced at 250g or less, in which case it takes 2 hours.

Effectively, this means he can make 0 and 1st lvl postions in two hours, while 2nd and 3rd will take him longer. Also, make sure he follows the rules on what spells can be put into potions so you don't have him making potions of MADD BUFFZ for everyone :D

Hmm... you could always make him take Practiced Spellcaster :p

Thazar wrote:

So a wizard with Brew Potion can make any potion they want... not just spells they have in their spell book. This is due to the fact that potions are use activated and not spell trigger or spell completion.

That's something else I was wrestling with, though I didn't bring it up in the OP. The rogue in question also wants to use Master Craftsman (Craft Alchemy) in conjunction with Brew Potion, but I was getting a little hung up on whether potions should be considered spell-trigger or spell-activation items (since ingestion of the potion does indeed trigger or activate the spell).

By the way, cheeky as they sound, I love the ideas about the spell-imbued foodstuffs (muffin of CLW, lol!) I just might have to add some things like that to my campaign.

Thazar wrote:

Just like you cannot pour two potions into one vial and drink them at the same time.

Hmm. By the RAW, that is probably true in PFRPG. However, that's another rule that could easily be bent by house rules. There are some really nifty potion miscability charts out there. Of course, they're pretty much all user-created, since I don't know that potion miscability has been an official option since 2nd edition.

Magicdealer wrote:

pg 549 of the core rulebook

"*about prerequisites*Most of the time, they take the form of spells that muct be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.

Aha! Thanks for pointing that out, I completely missed it! That means we don't even have to house-rule it as an option.

Nightwish wrote:

Magicdealer wrote:

pg 549 of the core rulebook

"*about prerequisites*Most of the time, they take the form of spells that muct be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.

Aha! Thanks for pointing that out, I completely missed it! That means we don't even have to house-rule it as an option.

The only part that you cannot avoid having is the item creation feat (and caster level for some of the weapon & defensive enhancements).